tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post6741587704377760202..comments2024-03-27T03:18:19.290-04:00Comments on Aeons & Augauries: Building a Sim-economyJDJarvishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-71295341146338803732016-08-03T10:51:41.363-04:002016-08-03T10:51:41.363-04:00Were those manor rolls based on full production or...Were those manor rolls based on full production or what was collected after production expenses and the peasant share?<br />JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-65535687285178623862012-12-13T12:08:42.787-05:002012-12-13T12:08:42.787-05:00I don't know if you are still monitoring this....I don't know if you are still monitoring this...<br /><br />Based on manor rolls from the 1300's we have the following yields:<br /><br />Barley: sow 4 bushels yield 16 bushels per acre<br />wheat: sow 2 bushels yield 10 bushels per acre<br />oats: sow 4 bushels yield 16 bushels per acre<br />peas sow 2 bushels yield 12 bushels per acre.<br /><br />The baker did not have to pay to feed himself. He took a part of each person's dough as it was brought in to be baked. The baker was also often the miller. The miller kept about 5% of each person's flour after it was milled.Dan Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06732426537049711984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-77142984314821946262010-10-17T11:06:22.405-04:002010-10-17T11:06:22.405-04:00For rough numbers what you have looks great. Espe...For rough numbers what you have looks great. Especially if your setting alkso has druids and gods of argiculture that actually talk to their preists. ;) <br /><br />I think your yield numbers are pretty close to what the mesoamericans got for maize.<br /><br />I saw keep the numbers you got. Why not? YOu may find that less than 90% of the populace needs to farm. Which is good since someone need to populate those Lankmars.<br /><br /><br /><br /> The 19th century yields do include some mechanization, it's just all horse powered. Most notably the seed drill (thank you Jethro Tull) which allowed for the easy dense row planting we see today and horse drawn tools to easily weed them. That and windmill based irrigation in the US west and nice silo cheap silo storage. <br /><br />All brought to you by industrial production of iron and the railroads. The latter and the free market also providing an outlet for that excess grain production. It's not that medieval peasants couldn't have done much the same (since the plant breeds were pretty similar) it's just they didn't have the time. <br /><br />The medieval peasant also didn't necessarily have the motive. From what I've read the effective tax rate on the lower classes was 50-60%. I'd say the medieval tax strucutre is the poster child for regressive taxation. So why bother working yourself to the bone (which your doing already) when the lord can tax your surplus and you may not even be able to sell it given the lords had a monopoly on the markets, i.e., there was no free market for your goods.<br /><br />Anyway, I think it's cool where your going with this.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08231609275892907901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-16622169529669498812010-10-16T14:58:33.855-04:002010-10-16T14:58:33.855-04:00@mike, I'm sure my numbers could be off with r...@mike, I'm sure my numbers could be off with reality, I am just shooting for vaguely plausible. I got a average un-irrigated wheat yield of 42 bushels from a couple internet searches and a book on 19th century farming(I read on google books which I stupidly didn't bookmark). Record yields for wheat in with pre mechanized farming can go really darned high. But I'm really working with generic grain getting too specific would be a little silly (for me) in a world with talking lizards that spit fire.<br />It's also all very subject to change when and as I work out more figures.JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-65859242669835926882010-10-15T16:21:45.004-04:002010-10-15T16:21:45.004-04:00I love this stuff. I've done the same crazy g...I love this stuff. I've done the same crazy grain-up economy as well. <br /><br />I love how you got the miller and baker in there. There's a good reason the Lord often had a monopoly on the mills. <br /><br />I love what you've done with beer. I think the poor, and children, drank small beer, basicaly 1/3 strength, just enough to kill the bad stuff.<br /><br />I'd be interested to see you include animals, goats, sheep, wool, ox, horse, plow teams. Or I'm happy to chime in as I ran up some numbers on this once myself.<br /><br />I think, however, you may be off on the yield per acre if you are talking wheat. It's more like 6-10 bu/acre after you reserve seed. If you are talking barley, emmer, rye, oats, etc. the yields about 2-4x higher, maybe closer to the 30-50. <br /><br />White bread is for the rich, but good thing about white flour is you can store it for a long time. <br /><br />I could well be wrong, my numbers are more from the Buster Farm project, Roman tracts, and of course internet searching. :)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08231609275892907901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-41764781926369135982010-10-15T13:22:19.581-04:002010-10-15T13:22:19.581-04:00The baker would keep his oven burning all day whet...The baker would keep his oven burning all day whether or not he was using it at any particular time,like a pizza oven.<br /><br />Like JDJarvis says a typical home would do their cooking over the fireplace with a spit. The cook could steam something in a pot over the fire, or broil it in a metal box in the coals, but for actual baking, the m hanging ost practical thing would be to send an assistant or child with the item down to the nearest baker and pay a cp for access to his oven. So that way the baker has an additional revenue stream using his oven's unused capacity. (this would also help defray the fuel cost)Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12909172154546099087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-42455060226797726182010-10-14T15:52:48.524-04:002010-10-14T15:52:48.524-04:00@scott, i love some of that harn stuff but by my s...@scott, i love some of that harn stuff but by my standards they are a little loopy sometimes.<br /><br />@matt. in many places it was illegal to have a large bake oven in a home for safety reasons. Some places even taxed a persons home based on how many ovens, fireplaces/hearths they had so it wasn't wise for the very poor to bake in such places.<br /><br />A baker could certainly make a lot of bread cheaper then a normal person could (it takes more fuel to fire a larger oven but not as much as it does per loaf for a smaller oven). <br /><br />cooking bread at home isn't cost prohibitive today, it's time prohibitive. If you can get your flour for less then $1.00 a pound you can bake bread cheaper then buying it. It just requires 3 hours or so of work and waiting.<br />simple bread recipe: 1 lb flour $0.70, 1 tsp salt ... $0.01, 1/4 ounce of yeast $0.06, cost of cooking fuel $0.12 to $0.52 depending on fuel costs. so we are talking $0.89 to $1.29 to make some bread. Sure you can find a loaf in a store cheaper but you can also find them to be a lot more expensive.JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-45293732016068627392010-10-14T15:22:31.297-04:002010-10-14T15:22:31.297-04:00What makes it all the more difficult, especially w...What makes it all the more difficult, especially when going bottom up, is the notion of barter and the idea that values are changing constantly. Guilds set prices for goods in towns and cities, so there might have been more stability in prices for manufactured goods. I would note, though, that it is unlikely that people could have baked bread more cheaply at home than a baker could have done - economies of scale, you know and the very reason few people bake bread at home in the modern day. I've read that very few people in medieval London ever cooked at home, and that most people purchased prepared food in restaurants or from street vendors. This wasn't just because of cost, of course - I think it had more to do with lacking a way to cook at home. I'm no expert on the subject, though, so take my comments with a grain of salt (worth about 1/4,000,000 cp).John Matthew Staterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02310914386482078369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8170674472098446028.post-90440935720908013712010-10-14T15:16:50.657-04:002010-10-14T15:16:50.657-04:00This is extremely interesting, and reminds me of t...This is extremely interesting, and reminds me of the methodical approach many Harn players and Refs take to manorial economy and the pricing of goods and labor. Not the approach I take, but something I read with great interest.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00155926145150934199noreply@blogger.com