How Tough are Ogres?

Years back the PCs in my campaign leveled 1st to 2nd jumped a pair of Ogres and the fight was over in 2 or 3 rounds, only one PC took any damage. One player quipped “I thought Ogres would be tougher”. Looking back on that I have to wonder…just how tough are Ogres?

The situation above happened using a house-ruled set of rules that was still essentially Swords & Wizardry so my analysis will start there. I’ll pit 2 average Ogres against 2 different sample parties of 5 characters.

Here’s the sample Parties stated using Swords & Wizardry complete.

The B team, all level 1. All Ability scores 9 to 12.
Agon the Fighter, 5 hp AC5[14] chain, attacks two handed sword(1d10)

Bruli the Dwarven Fighter, 5 hp AC4[15] chain and shield, Attacks: Battle Axe(1d8 or 1d8+1 if used 2handed) and LtCrossbow (1d4+1)

Castro the Magic-User, 3hp AC9[10], Attacks: Daggers
spells: Magic Missile.autohit 1d4+1

Denny the Cleric, 4hp AC4[15] chain and shield, Attacks: Mace

Ernie the Thief, 3hp AC7[12] leather, Attacks: Sword and Shortbow



The A team, all level 1. Exceptional ability scores that impact combat are noted and everyone gets max HP. This is a maxed-out power party.
Floyd the Fighter, 8hp AC4[15] chain attacks two handed sword(1d10+3)
STR 18 +2 to hit, +3 to damage, DEX 16 Parry… -3 to enemy attacks, improve Ac by 1.

Gorddi the Dwarven Fighter, 9hp AC4[15] chain and shield Attacks: Battle Axe(1d8+1 or 1d8+2 if used 2handed) and LtCrossbow (1d4+1)
STR 16 +1 to hit and damage, Con 17 +1 hp

Hallucis the Magic-User, 5hp AC9[10] Attacks: Daggers
Con 15 +1hp
spells: Magic Missile.autohit 1d4+1

Ignatius the Cleric, 6hp AC4[15] chain and shield Attacks: Mace

Jack the Thief , 4hp AC6[13] Attacks: Sword and Shortbow
DEX 17, improve AC by 1, +1 to hit w/missiles


The 2 Ogres
Average Ogre HD:4+1, 19hp, AC 5[14], Weapon 1d10+1

Average likely Damage vs Ogres Ac 5[14]
Parties vs Ogres.
Agon w/2Hsword(1d10)… 35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.925
Bruli w/Battle Axe(1d8 or 1d8+1 if used 2handed)  35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.575 or 1.925
Bruli W/LtCrossbow (1d4+1) 35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.225
Castro w/Daggers 35% to hit  average likely damage is 0.875
Castro w/spell (1d4+1) 100% to hit  average likely damage is 3.5
Denny w/Mace  35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.225
Ernie w/Sword 35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.575
Ernie w/shortbow 35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.225
——

Floyd w/2Hsword(1d10+3) 45% to hit  average likely damage is 3.825
Gorddi w/Battle Axe(1d8+1 or 1d8+2 if used 2handed)  40% to hit  average likely damage is 2.2 or 2.8
Gorddi w/lt crossbow(1d4+1) 35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.225
Hallucis w/Dagger 35% to hit  average likely damage is 0.875
Hallucis w/MM.autohit 1d4+1 to hit  average likely damage is 3.5
Ignatius w/Mace 35% to hit  average likely damage is 1.225
Jack the Thief w/Sword 35% to hit  average likely damage is  1.575
Jack the Thief w/Shortbow 40% to hit  average likely damage is 1.4


Ogres average damage vs party
vs party-A average 55% to hit average likely damage of 3.575
vs party-B average 60% to hit average likely damage of 3.9

vs AC 9[10] average 80% to hit average likely damage of 5.2
vs AC 7[12] average 70% to hit average likely damage of 4.55
vs AC 6[13] average 60% to hit average likely damage of 3.9
vs AC 5[14] average 55% to hit average likely damage of 3.575
vs AC 4[15] average 50% to hit average likely damage of 3.25


Generic Scenario:
party vs party toe to toe. 1st rank of fighters, 2nd rank remainder of party. Fighters shield other characters until dead. 1st rank has no missile use.
PCs have initiative strike ogres 1st. Damage split evenly among ranks that can be contacted by other side. Odds will be based on party average AC.
(some odd things are going to happen here with fractional HP but i’m going to use them instead of working out 10,000 fights)

Generic Scenario Ogres Vs B team
round 1:  Ogres suffer 5.6 pts damage. Denny can’t attack from 2nd rank.
      PC suffer 7.8 ps of damage.
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 16.2 hp remaining
    Agon and Bruli have 1.1 hp remaining.
round 2: Ogres suffer 5.6 pts damage. Denny still can’t attack from 2nd rank.
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 13.4 hp remaining.
    Agon and Bruli are slain. Front rank now Denny and Ernie.
round 3:  Ogres suffer 3.675 pts damage.
     PCs suffer 7.8 pts of Damage.
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 14.4 hp remaining
    Denny has 0.1 hp remaining.  Ernie is slain. Castro and Denny are now 1st rank
round 4: Ogres suffer 2.1 its of damage.
    PCs suffer 7.8 its of damage
    Ogres have 13.38 hp each.
    Castro and Denny are slain.

Generic Scenario Ogres Vs A team
round 1:  Ogres suffer 8.3 pts of damage.
     Party suffers 7.15 its of damage
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 14.85 hp remaining.
    Floyd has 4.425 hp remaining . Gorddi has 5.425 hp remaining
round 2:  Ogres suffer 8.3 pts of damage.
     Party suffers 7.15 its of damage
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 10.7 hp remaining.
    Floyd has 0.85 hp remaining . Gorddi has 1.85 hp remaining
round 3:  Ogres suffer 8.3 pts of damage.
     Party suffers 7.15 its of damage
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 6.55 hp remaining.
    Floyd and Gorddi are slain. front line is now Ignatius and Jack
round 4: Ogres suffer 3.675 pts of damage
    Party suffer 7.15 its of damage.
    Ogre #1 and Ogre #2 have 6.463 hp each
     Ignatius has 2.425hp Jack has 0.425 hp
round 5: Ogres suffer 3.675 pts of damage
    Party suffer 7.15 its of damage.
    Ogre#1 and Ogre #2 have 4.788hp
    Ignatius and Jack are slain. leaving poor Hallucis to himself.
round 6: Ogres suffer 0,875 its of damage.
     party suffers…total utter defeat, Hallucis should have ran 1 or 2 rounds ago.

The generic scenario is rather brutal and unforgiving but it has a host of faults in the utter lack of tactics used by the PCS. It can be seen the A team certainly puts up a better fight which is no surprise a all due to better hp and damage output but all that does is increase the duration of the fight by 2 rounds.

Scenario 1:
In this scenario party vs ogres toe to toe. 1st rank of fighters, 2nd rank remainder of party. Fighters shield other characters until dead. 1st rank has no missile use.
PCs have initiative and strike ogres 1st. Damage from blows will be on a target vs target basis and all missile damage will be directed against Ogre #1 (until slain).

Scenario 1B. B-team vs the Ogres
round 1: Ogre #1 suffers 4.025pts damage from Agon and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.575 pts of damage from Bruli.
    Agon is hit for 3.575 pts damage.
    Bruli is hit for 3.25 pts damage.
    Ogre #1 has 14.975 hp. Ogre #2 has 17.425hp
    Agon has 1.45 hp. Bruli has 1.75 hp
round 2: Ogre #1 suffers 4.025pts damage from Agon and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.575 pts of damage from Bruli.
    Agon is hit for 3.575 pts damage.
    Bruli is hit for 3.25 pts damage.
    Ogre #1 has 10.95 hp. Ogre #2 has 15.85hp
    Agon and Bruli are slain.
round 3: 1st rank is now Denny (who was unable to fight until now due to lack of missiles and Ernie who is now using a sword).
    Ogre #1 suffers 1.3125damage from Denny and Castro
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.575 damage from Ernie.
    Denny suffers 3.575 damage of damage.
    Ernie suffers 4.55 damage, Ernie is slain.
    Ogre #1 has 9.638hp, Ogre #2 has 14.275hp
    Denny has 0.425 hp remaing.
round4: 1st rank is now Denny and Castro.
    Ogre #1 suffers 1.225 dfrom Denny
    Ogre #2 suffers 0,875 from Castro
    Denny is hit for 3.57 damage slaying him
    Castro is hit for 5.2 damage, slaying him

Scenario 1B. A-team vs the Ogres   
round 1:Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 pts damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 pts of damage from Gorddi.
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage from Ogre #1
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 its of drag from Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 has 12.9 hp. Ogre #2 has 16.8 hp
    Floyd has 4.425 hp. Gorddi has 5.575 hp
round 2:Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 pts damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 pts of damage from Gorddi.
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage from Ogre #1
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 its of drag from Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 has 6.8 hp. Ogre #2 has 14.6 hp
    Floyd has 4.425 hp. Gorddi has 5.575 hp
round 3:Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 pts damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 pts of damage from Gorddi.
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage from Ogre #1
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 its of drag from Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 has 0.7 hp. Ogre #2 has 12.4 hp
    Floyd has 0.85 hp. Gorddi has 2.325 hp
round 4:Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 pts damage from Floyd and party missile fire,slaying it.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 pts of damage from Gorddi.
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 its of drag from Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 was slain. Ogre #2 has 10.2 hp
    Gorddi was slain by Ogre #2.
round 5: with Gorddi slain Ignatius steps forward to fight.
    Ogre #2 suffers 7.325 its of damage (both Floyd and Ignatius strike it along with missile fire from Hallucis and Jack)
    Ignatius suffers 3.25 its damage from Ogre #2. (ogre stokes him due to Ignatius advancing on him)
    Ogre #2 has 2.875 hp remaing.
    Floyd still has 0.85 hp. Ignatius has 2.75 hp.
round 6: Ogre #2 suffers 7.325 its of damage which slays it. Party survives with one loss.

Analysis of Scenario 1 shows a big difference in staying power of both parties when individual characteristics are considered closer. Scenario 1B has 2 PCs fighting in the last round as opposed to one but it is still a TPK. Scenario 1A has 4 PCs surviving (perhaps due to wonkiness of fractional math), had Ogre #2 turned on the fighter instead of the advancing cleric the party would have lost 2 characters but still been victorious.

Scenario 2.
In this scenario the party has initiative once again and there is enough distance for a round of missile fire prior to melee. All missile fire is directed against Ogre #1 until ogre #1 is slain.


Ogres vs B-team
round 1: Ogre #1 suffers 5.95 damage from missile fire and Castro’s Magic Missile.
    No party members are harmed in round #1.
    Ogre #1 has 13.05 hp.
round 2: Ogre #1 suffers 4.025 damage from Agon and missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.575 pts of damage from Bruli.
    Agon is hit for 3.575 pts damage.
     Bruli is hit for 3.25 pts damage.
    Ogre #1 has 9.02 hp. Ogre #2 has 17.425 hp.
    Agon has 1.45 hp. Bruli has 1.75 hp
round 3: Ogre #2 suffers 4.025pts damage from Agon and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.575 pts of damage from Bruli.
    Agon is hit for 3.575 pts damage.
    Bruli is hit for 3.25 pts damage.
    Ogre #1 has 5.175 hp. Ogre #2 has 15.85hp
    Agon and Bruli are slain.
round 4: 1st rank is now Denny (who was unable to fight until now due to lack of missiles and Ernie who is now using a sword).
    Ogre #1 suffers 1.3125damage from Denny and Castro
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.575 damage from Ernie.
    Denny suffers 3.575 damage of damage.
    Ernie suffers 4.55 damage, Ernie is slain.
    Ogre #1 has 4.862hp, Ogre #2 has 14.275hp
    Denny has 0.425 hp remaing.
round5: 1st rank is now Denny and Castro.
    Ogre #1 suffers 1.225 dfrom Denny
    Ogre #2 suffers 0,875 from Castro
    Denny is hit for 3.57 damage slaying him
    Castro is hit for 5.2 damage, slaying him
    Party loses with Ogre #1 at 3.637hp and Ogre#2 at 13.4

Scenario 2A, A-team vs Ogres.
round 1: Ogre #1 suffers 6.125 damage from missile fire and Hallucis’s Magic Missile.
    No party members are harmed in round #1.
    Ogre #1 has 12.875 hp.
round 2:Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 pts damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 pts of damage from Gorddi.
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage from Ogre #1
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 its of drag from Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 has 6.775 hp. Ogre #2 has 16.8 hp
    Floyd has 4.425 hp. Gorddi has 5.575 hp
round 3:Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 pts damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 pts of damage from Gorddi.
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage from Ogre #1
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 its of drag from Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 has 0.675 hp. Ogre #2 has 14.6 hp
    Floyd has 0.85 hp. Gorddi has 2.325 hp
round 4: Ogre #1 suffers 3.825 pts damage from Floyd slaying it.
    Party redirects missile fire at Ogre #2.
    Ogre #2 suffers 4.3 pts of damage from Gorddi and missile fire
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 of dmagefrom Ogre #2
    Ogre #1 is dead. Ogre #2 has 10.3 hp
    Floyd has 0.85 hp. Gorddi has 2.325 hp
round 5: Ogre #2 suffers 7.325 pts damage from Floyd slaying it.
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 of damage from Ogre #2 slaying him.
    Ogre #2 has 2.975 hp
    Floyd has 0.85 hp. Gorddi is dead.
round 6: Ignatius steps in to face the ogre.
    Ogre #2 suffers 7.325 damage and is slain.
    Party wins the fight.

Analysis of scenario 2. The ogres are worse off at the end of scenario 2b than they were at the end of 2a but tactics only stretch the fight for a round for the B-team. The B-team still loses Gorddi in the fray even with the fight stretching on longer.


Scenario 3.
In this scenario the party has initiative and has spotted the ogres at a distance that allows for 2 rounds of missile fire before they close. The human ever pimpatient will rush forward in round 2 to strike Ogre #1. The dwarven fighter will drop his crossbow and draw his battle axe during this round as well so no damage from him in round 2. all missile fire will be directed at Ogre #1 until Ogre #2 is slain.

Scenario 3B, B-team vs Ogres
round 1: Ogre #1 suffers 5.95 damage from missile fire and Castro’s Magic Missile.
    No party members are harmed in round #1.
    Ogre #1 has 13.05 hp.
round 2: Ogre #1 suffers 4.025 damage from Agon and party missile
    Ogre #1 has  9.8 hp
    Ogre #2 is unharmed.
    Foolhardy Agon is struck by both ogres for a total of 7.15 damage, slaying him.
round 3. Denny moves up to fight the ogres.
    Ogre #1 suffers 3.325 damage
    Denny suffers 3.25 its damage
    Bruli suffers 3.25 damage
    Ogre #1 has 6.475. Ogre #2 has 17.775
    Bruli has 1.75 hp. Denny has 0.75 hp
round 4.Ogre #1 suffers 3.325 its damage
    Ogre #2 suffers 1.225 points of damage.
    Denny and Bruli are each struck for 3.25 points of damage slaying both.
round 5. Castro strikes Ogre #1 for 0.875 dmage
    Ernie strikes Ogre 32 for 1.575 points of damage.
    Castro suffers 5.2 damage and is slain
    Ernie suffers 5.2 damage and is slain.

Scenario 3A. A-team vs Ogres
round 1: Ogre #1 suffers 6.125 damage from missile fire and Haucis’s Magic Missile.
    No party members are harmed in round #1.
    Ogre #1 has 12.875 hp.
round 2: Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 damage from Floyd and party missile
    Ogre #1 has  6.775 hp
    Ogre #2 is unharmed.
    Floyd is stuck by both ogres suffering 7.15 points of damage.
    Floyd has 0.85 hp
round 3: Ogre #1 is struck for 6.1 damage
    Ogre #2 is struck for 2.2 damage.
    Floyd is struck for 3.575 damage slaying him.
    Gorddi is struck for 3.25 damage
    Ogre #1 has 0.675 hp. Ogre #2 has 16.8
    Floyd is dead. Gorddi has 5.75 hp

round 4: Ignatius steps into melee with Ogre#1.
    Ogre #1 suffers 1.225 damage from Floyd and is slain
    Ogre #2 suffers 4.3 damage from Gorddi and missile fire.
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 damage.
    Ogre #1 is dead. Ogre #2 has 14.4 hp.
    Gorddi has 2.5 hp
round 5: Ogre #2 suffers 5.525 damage.
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 damage slaying him.
    Ogre #2 has 8.875 hp
    Gorddi is dead.
round 6: Jack steps up with his sword.
    Ogre #2 suffers 3.675 damage
    Ignatius suffers 3.25 damage
    Ogre #2 has 5.2 hp
    Ignatius has 2.75 hp
round 7: Ogre #2 suffers 3.675 damage
    Ignatius suffers 3.25 and is slain.
    Ogre #2 has 1.525 ho
round 8: w/Ignatius slain it’s just Hallucis and jack left in the fight.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.45 damage, slaying it.
    The party wins but with 3 loses.

scenario 3 analysis: Both parties clearly lose their advantage when their fighter is impatient and breaks the line to melee the ogres. The B team fares no better in scenario 3 than it did in scenario 2. The A team has a much longer battle but loses more party members than it did in scenario 2.


next 2 scenarios are just the A team.

Scenario 4.
The party has initiative. There is time for 2 rounds of missile fire. The dwarf Gorddi drop his shield and crossbow to use the battle axe in 2 hands for melee after round 1,lowering AC but raising damage. The human fighter hold his position and does not charge. All missile fire is on Ogre #1 until it is nearly dead.

round 1: Ogre #1 suffers 6.125 damage from missile fire and Haucis’s Magic Missile.
    No party members are harmed in round #1.
    Ogre #1 has 12.875 hp.
round 2: Ogre #1 suffers 2.1 damage from the missile fire as fighters brace for melee.
    Ogre #1 has 10.775 hp.
round 3: Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.8 damage from Gorddi.
    Floyd and Gorddi are struck for 3.575 damage.
    Ogre #1 has 4.675 hp. Ogre #2 has 16.2 hp.
    Floyd has 4.425 hp. Gorddi has 5.425 hp.
round 4: Ogre #1 suffers 6.1 damage from Floyd and party missile fire.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.8 damage from Gorddi.
    Gorddi is struck for 3.575 damage.
    Ogre #1 is dead. Ogre #2 has 13.4 hp.
    Gorddi has 1.85 hp.
round 5: Able to maneuver Ignatius jumps into the fight.
    Ogre #2 suffers 7.325 damage
    Ignatius suffers 3.575 damage from ogre who struck at new foe rushing in.
    Ogre #2 has 6.075
    Ignatius has 2.425 hp
round 6: Ogre #2 suffers 7.325 points of damage and is slain.
    Party wins the fight. No party members are killed.

Scenario 4 goes fairly well for the party. Holding the line sand peppering one target serves to keep anyone from being ganged-up on by the ogres and later gives opportunity to maneuver to increase the number of combatants who can fight in round 5. If the party cleric hadn’t done so they would likely lose member or two of the party.


Scenario 5. The ogres have initiative and attack the  team from behind. Hallucis and Jack are targeted first by the ogre attacks.

round 1: Hallucis suffers 5.2 damage from Ogre #1, slaying him.
     Jack suffers 3.9 damage from Ogre #2.
    Ignatius steps in to strike Ogre #1 for 1.225 damage.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.625 damage from Jack’s sword and Gorddi’s crossbow.
    Hallucis is dead. Jack has 0.1 hp
    Ogre #1 has 17.775 hp. Ogre #2 has 16.375 hp.
round 2: Ignatius suffers 3.575 damage
    Jack suffers 3.9 damage, slaying him.
    Ogre #1 suffers 1.225 damage from Ignatius.
    Ogre #2 suffers 6.025 from Gorddi and Floyd striking over Gorddi’s head.
    Jack is dead. Ignatius has 2.425 hp.
    Ogre #1 has 16.55 hp. Ogre #2 has 10.35 hp.
round 3: Ignatius suffers 3.575 damage and is slain.
    Gorddi suffers 3.25 damage
    Ogre #1 suffers 3.85 damage from Floyd.
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2 damage from Gorddi.   
    Gorddi has 5.75 hp.   
    Ogre #1 has 12.7 hp. Ogre #2 has 8.15 hp
round 4: Gorddi suffers 3.25 damage
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage.
    Ogre #1 suffers 3.85   
    Ogre #2 suffers 2.2
    Gorddi has 2.5 hp. Floyd has 4.425 hp
    Ogre #1 has 6.85 hp. Ogre #2 has 5.95 hp.
round 5. Gorddi suffers 3.25 damage and is slain.
    Floyd suffers 3.575 damage.
    Ogre #1 suffers 3.85   
    Ogre #2 is unharmed.
    Floyd has 0.85 hp
round 6. Floyd suffers 7.15 points of damage at the hands of the to ogres and is slain.

Analysis of scenario 5. Getting attacked from the rear can ruin a dungeon parties day. No Ogres are slain but the party is quickly slaughtered.



So how tough are Ogres? Together the 2 ogres have 8 Hit Dice against the 1st level parties 5 Hit Dice but they still lose half or more of the time. Typical damage outer from the 2 Ogres is going to be about 7.5 points of damage a round. This will have a telling result on a 1st level party with a death each round likely. Over the course of many rounds a 5 PC 1st level party could likely dish out a likely 8.5 points of damage against the ogres if tactics and positioning allowed it. In the examples Ignatius seldom was able to maneuver into action; 1st level clerics are little more than ineffective fighters unless the party runs into undead frequently. The lesson learned here is Ogres aren’t as tough as they are made up to be, they can smash into a 1st level party but if that party isn’t surprised, has missile weapons, and uses tactics they  have at least an equal chance if not better vs the 2 Ogres. One Ogre wouldn’t be all that tough at all except maybe for the one or two adventurers in a party it could theoretically drive into the ground like tent stakes.



note: I do wonder how these fights would play out differently in different old-school games.